although it looks defensive i'm actually, my theme is, pension plan liability. so i think that is going to be something that people aren't paying attention to. cheryl: that is interesting, rising long-term interest rates are actually a good thing. i want to get your take if we can for just a moment. looking ahead to 2014, we're getting into the time to try to predict with we'll see in markets in 2014. barclays came out today. ubs, goldman sachs, came out with bullish reports. bullish reports do you agree and what will the volcker rule to the banks is nynex question? >> talk about the volcker rule for a second. one thing we have to be careful about. the volcker rule will be decided next couple days. we'll get good details about it. the thing isn't implemented until 2015. it will be a lot of time to lobby away sharp edges. people need to look at financials as maybe a buying opportunity. but the real rule, the teeth of it won't happen for a year. so i wouldn't take too much, i wouldn't worry too much about that one in the short run however if i were looking at futu